Nick Campion: To start with, Liz, I’d like to talk a little about Pluto, the planet of the moment, especially in view of the current Saturn-Pluto opposition. I’ve been reading what you wrote about Saturn and Pluto in your book Saturn; you stated that, when these planets combine, "there often seems to be a carefully and deliberately organised movement towards some sort of self-destructive experience." You added that the person may be aware of this obsessive movement but may not be able to control it. I have that Saturn-Pluto opposition squared my Sun at the moment, so I was thinking: "How can I be conscious about it?" In fact, how does one become conscious of something? Have you experienced that opposition this year, in terms of your clients? Has it been noticeable?
Liz Greene: Oh yes, very noticeable. There aren’t many people who are not getting it in one form or another, because it doesn’t just involve planets in the mutable signs. It is also hitting things by semi-square and sesquiquadrate. That pulls in all the cardinal signs as well. So, yes, a lot of clients are beginning to put on their armadillo suits.
Nick Campion: Do you mean that they’re getting into a self-protective posture?
Liz Greene: That’s one reaction to it. I think it is a very common reaction - and probably a natural reaction. Saturn is much more individually graspable, whereas Pluto feels so overwhelming that the initial response is to pull into Saturn and try to defend oneself against Pluto. It is not "wrong" to do that. It is an inevitable, natural thing to do. But it is not necessarily the best thing to do. The aspect will work itself through anyway, but that certainly seems to be what people are doing.
Nick Campion: In view of the respective planetary positions, do you think that there is a particular Gemini-Sagittarius character to this Saturn-Pluto opposition?
Liz Greene: I think so, because it seems to be raising issues that have to do with morality, as well as with knowledge versus intuitive realisations of some kind. It is creating a lot of intellectual polarisation. There are ideas being battled out, although the form that the Saturn-Pluto opposition takes can be very concrete in lots of people’s lives. With all the conflicts that seem to be arising on both personal and collective levels, it is ideologies, concepts, belief systems, and bodies of knowledge that are at stake, even behind whatever wars are being fought.
Nick Campion: Is there one particular example at the moment of an ideological clash that you’d point to?
Liz Greene: Well, how about Northern Ireland? That’s been going on for a very long time, and I don’t think that it’s unique to Saturn-Pluto, but it may enter a new phase now.
Nick Campion: The Sun in the chart for the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (December 7, 1922) is at 14° Sagittarius.
Liz Greene: The Sun and the Descendant are within five degrees of each other. The chart for southern Ireland and the chart for the U.K., including Northern Ireland, are one day apart. They are both getting Saturn-Pluto.
Of course, now that Pluto has been demoted, this is now absolute hogwash, whereas as until last week, it was , er..